*Update September 2021 - This blogpost was written on April 19, 2021 before the US troops were pulled out of Afghanistan in August 2021. This post was not written to prove who’s in the longer standing war but to state the Korean War is still not over meaning a lot more work has to be done. Our hearts are heavy as we know the intense situation escalating currently in Afghanistan for our US troops and people of Afghanistan.
CNN announced on April 15th that President Joe Biden formally decided to end America’s longest-standing war. President Biden promised to withdraw US troops from Afghanistan by September 11th, which would mark the 20th Anniversary of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
As President Biden takes one positive step forward for ending the conflict in the Middle East, the truth is that the Afghanistan War is not America’s longest war. Despite the 20-year fight against terrorism, a longer conflict is still unresolved on the Korean Peninsula. With 28,500 troops still based in South Korea and an unresolved peace agreement, the Korean War lasting 71 years makes it the longest conflict in American history!
The Korean War Remains Unresolved for Over 70 Years
This conflict on the Korean soil is not a simple matter. It will require a complicated, multi-step peace process, but the important thing is that tangible steps are taken with the intent of engaging with the DPRK.
Just how complicated is the situation on the Korean Peninsula, and what can we expect if the US does start to re-open conversation with North Korea? My interview with Dr. Preston Jones at John Brown University discusses these very points. Below are highlights from our interview found on YouTube at Stuff of Life:
Dr. Jones: I have been reading what you have written about North Korea, and I have listened to you in other discussions speaking about North Korea. I have been reminded about something that I often tell my students: A mark of an educated mind is the ability to recognize is that sometimes contradictory things are true. The world is a complicated place. I have been reminded of that listening to you… I very much appreciated the spirit of what you were saying, the importance of building relationships with North Koreans. On the one hand is what we hear from the defectors, and then there’s your own experience. How do you explain that?
Me: I think you have already phrased it really well because it is all about the danger of a single story. When you only see one perspective or one paradigm, we can think that that is the only truth that exists. As you already mentioned, the world is a complicated place. That does not mean that their stories are not real. Their stories are very much real, but that is only one side of the coin. When we think of North Korea, we only understand what we hear in the media, and as we have been learning in the United States, it depends. Do we watch Fox News or do we watch CNN or do we watch BBC? We will have a different paradigm that we are fed, a different perspective that we see. So that is what I would say as well. North Koreans are people just like you and me. In the media, they dehumanize the way we think about them. It's not to discredit some of the terrible stories that you've heard, but there's a whole different side to the country, as well. I think it's important to also understand that most of the people who came out from North Korea came out during the late 90s. From 94 to 98 was a severe famine in North Korea, as you probably know, and so there were some horrific stories that came out from there. Those stories are true, but that's more than 20 years ago now. The country has changed and has developed. So, one thing we need to remember is that there's many different sides to the story, and it is very dangerous to just look at a single-story. We have to have the whole picture and understand who North Korea. We have to see some of the trauma they've gone through, and we also have to understand their whole history, who they are as a people, who they are as a culture, and that you can make relationships with North Koreans because they are people just like you and me.
Dr. Jones: Just listening to you talk, I am getting a sense, and tell me if I'm overstating it. There is a pretty profound different way of approaching the world. One reason the United States and North Korea cannot get on track is because they're coming at things from such radically different points of view, such radically different worldviews. Let me just read this clip here. I have your Memoir here, and you say that North Koreans’ understanding and interpretation of historical events and their world perspective is different from anything we had ever experienced. You are referring to your own to your family, and I've heard you say that when you first arrived in North Korea to live there that you arrived with the ideas that most Americans have. I think you even said you were a little combative at times, but clearly, you've undergone of a kind of transition which has involved being able to see things from their point of view. You've touched on it a bit, but I wonder if you could still spell it out a little bit more when you say the North Koreans’ understanding and interpretation of historical events is different from anything you had experience before and anything you know an average North American can understand. What are some of the elements of that?
Me: Well, I think one thing that I realized living in North Korea was that we are all tainted by our own worldview. I don't know where the truth is, to be honest with you. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle or a little bit of this and that. We grow up with our own worldview, and until we have experienced another culture and until we understand how they interpret the facts or they see the facts, then we can understand there's other worldviews out there. Another thing about North Korea, which is really, really critical in America, is that we are not even taught the facts in America. The Korean war is mostly known as “The Forgotten War”. There might be a reason for that. I don't know, but one thing that we started to discover living in North Korea was the incredible trauma that they experienced from the war. I don't want to get into who started the war or what the whole situation was. But the fact is that the country was literally carpet bombed in the war. So, when we talk about statistics that even you'll find in the United States, public statistics about the war, on average they say that 3 million people died in the war. Only about hundreds of thousands troops were killed in the war. That means that vastly over 2 million people, all women, children, civilians, were killed in the war. A lot of that was due to the air strikes on North Korea. The North Korean population at the time was only nine million. Put that into comparison, and you can see a large proportion of their people killed, basically. These are not soldiers, people on the battlefield. These are innocent women and children, grandmothers and grandfathers, without any say, just obliterated. Whatever you think war is, (War in my opinion is evil, regardless, on both sides) there's trauma on both sides. What happens is that you have that stigma that continues to live on, and it's been only about seventy years since the Korean war from 1950 to 1953. That generation is passing away. Right? However, that generation passed those stories down. They past that trauma down to their children and their grandchildren. It's still very much alive in North Korea and in South Korea, as well. There's more propaganda and more education about the trauma in the North Korea, but even in South Korea that trauma has been passed down the generations. So, when we're dealing with Korean politics, particularly dealing with politics with the United States, it's from that perspective. Korea, especially North Korea, is so traumatized that they don't want anything like that to ever happen again. What would any country do? They would defend themselves. North Korea is a very small country, especially compared to the super powers like the United States, China, and Russia. And, all these countries have had a say and a participation in what's happened on the Korean Peninsula. The Korean people have pretty much been powerless for quite a long time. In the Russo-Japanese War they were fighting over Korea, at that time President Roosevelt received a Nobel Peace Prize for his negotiations in that war. But what happened at the time because of the negotiations, Korea became annexed to Japan. That’s how the Japanese Occupation began. So, the United States was involved from the very beginning. The [35] some years under Japanese Occupation, which was extremely traumatic, the United States had a part in that. And then, after Korea was liberated at the end of World War II, Russia, or the Soviet Union at the time, and the United States came in and divided the nation against the will of the Korean people. That was never Korea’s desire. That was the Soviet Union and the United States taking over this country. Really that is where it all comes down to. Because the country was divided, it set the stage for the Korean War. Of course, Koreans wanted to be a united nation. They had been a united nation for the most part, on and off, for thousands of years. So, they wanted to be one people. They are one people. But as the result of the Soviet Union and the United States, the Korean War breaks out. As a result of the Korean War, there is even more trauma. You have to think about what happens to victims. Victims become victimizers, yes? It is a viscous cycle. Really what the Korean Peninsula needs is peace. The United States taking a hard line, hard sanctions, give us everything or nothing, let down your nuclear weapons, we won’t talk about peace until you give up your nuclear weapons…None of that is going to interpret to North Koreans because North Koreans are so traumatized all they want to do is protect themselves. All they want to do is maintain their culture, their people. What small country would just give everything over to a large country with nothing in return? That is the perspective that they are coming from. I am not speaking from my own personal perspective, but I am trying to portray how they are feeling.
Dr. Jones: As I am trying to understand what you are saying, I’m processing what you are saying. In light of what you just said, and accepting it for the sake of discussion, then the sanctions are seen as a continuation. In the report, “The Human Costs and Gendered Impact of Sanctions on North Korea”, in the parts that you contributed to is how these sanctions are hurting a lot of people, and they are hurting a lot of women. As a matter of fact, the sanctions are having a hard impact on people, particularly women. As a North Korean, I have been continuously reminded of the Korean War… and then I see that a life that has been hard has become significantly harder. From the North Korean person, this suffering from the sanctions is a continuation of the suffering that goes all the way back to the early 1990’s. Am I reading too much into what you are saying?
Me: I think that you are trying to explain the North Korean position, and that would be the North Korean position. The government says the sanctions are due to the United States, which is true. The United States has put on sanctions with the intent of a nonvolatile or non-harming way of pressuring the government to give up its nuclear weapons, but it actually backfires because what happens is that sanctions hurt the common people. They don’t hurt the government, per say. The government has its ways of figuring out how to survive, but the common people are then left powerless. The reason why these sanctions hurt women so specifically is because the economic sanctions have targeted textile factories, which was a big revenue for women because women are in the sewing industry. So, these women have lost all of their jobs. The sanctions have also targeted metal and basically anything entering the country unless you have a US Treasury License and a US Commerce License nothing from the United States can really get inside the country. As a result, a lot of the humanitarian aid has been drastically cut off. Even the United Nations, itself, has cut the budget of the UNDP and UNICEF, and other nonprofit organizations within the United Nations working in North Korea. Because of these budget cuts, they were not able to deliver emergency birthing kits. A lot of women in rural areas, not in the capital city, were not able to receive these birthing kits, and as a result, from those birthing kids alone, I think it is in 2018, it is estimated that about 4,000 people died. So, that’s why these sanctions are affecting the common people, particularly women, because it has targeted industries that women work in, it’s targeted health care in many ways. Even health care workers have to apply for Special Validation Passports, even health care organizations. Because we do not just delivery medicine, we have to deliver the medical equipment that goes with the medicine, and a lot of medical equipment has metal in it. And that is sanctioned, so we have to apply to the UN Sanction Committee. We have to apply for a US Commerce License to ship it, and we have to apply for a US OFAC Treasury License just to do the work that we are doing. It is very complicated.
The Comprehensive Report on “The Human Costs and Gendered Impact of Sanctions on North Korea”
Dr. Jones: The reasons the sanctions are there is because there is a feeling that North Korea is a danger to Asia, to South Korea, and to the United States. The sanctions are there to convince the government to get rid of their nuclear weapons. It seems like a reasonable policy, but it is counterproductive because it is hurting regular folks and is feeding into the sentiment that the whole world is out to get us. And then, there is the Juche philosophy of self-dependence. I can imagine North Koreans saying that this is exactly why we are self-independent because the world is against us. Do you think then that these sanctions are counterproductive because they are helping the regime keep the people turned against us?
Me: Most definitely. I think you have hit it right on the head. It is feeding into North Korea’s position that the whole world is against them, and these sanctions are only helping to prove that true. Yes, that would be the typical perspective of a common North Korean person. On top of that, it is complicating the humanitarian crisis. And as the United States or the United Nations the last thing we want to see is us causing humanitarian crises. And that is exactly what is happening in North Korea.
Dr. Jones: This is sounding difficult. As you were speaking, it is interesting. I got insight into how bias does work. When I read, as an American, about the brutality of the Japanese Occupation, I think, yes, that is what the Japanese did. But when the conversation turns to the Korean War and the obliteration of Pyongyang and every city in North, there is a natural tendency for me to hesitate. It is a lot easier for me to go along with the impact of the Japanese Occupation than to have a non-defensive discussion about the Korean War. So even while you were talking, I got an insight into how bias works.
Me: South Korea is really brand-new in the way that they are thinking. They have a lot of influence from the West, from the United States. North Korea was influenced by, of course, the Soviet Union. It has influence from China, but they want to maintain that uniqueness that they are their own people. They have even gotten rid of a lot of foreign words in their language whereas South Korea has adopted a lot of foreign words into their language. So that is just the difference between the mentality North and South Korea, but I would say that the Korean nation as a whole has a very strong identity.
Dr. Jones: The hope is that the Korean nation will be united. I have heard you say that you think this hope is deeper in the North than in the South. We have seen the rapid unraveling of the East block and East Germany. Suppose something rapid like that did happen and that there is some form of unification. Do you think that would go well? We don’t know, but what is your sense of that?
Me: Right. When you look at Germany, I think Germany is still working through some of those issues between East and West Germany. They have done a wonderful job at unification. A lot of people look at Germany as a model for Korea. The problem with that is that Germany was never at war with itself. They never had a civil war. From the very beginning, they were committed to unifying. Well, as you stated, in the North the desire to unify is still very strong. It is still very much a part of their mainstream education. You see it everywhere, in their statues, in their slogans. But in the South, people are comfortable now. They have a pretty good lifestyle in the South. They worry about if they unify what would happen to the economy because the Southern economy would have to carry the brunt of the North economy. So, there are a lot of issues like that that North and South Korea are working through. But one of the main obstacles, there’s two main obstacle. One is the Korean War. They have both felt victims. In fact, they were both victims of the war. And so, there is a lot of difficult sentiment related to that. There’s a lot of unforgiveness and bitterness, a lot of hatred that still exits. In South Korea, that felling is mostly targeted towards the North. In North Korea, that negative sentiment has been mostly targeted towards the United States. Actually, North Korea does not feel those bitter feelings about South Korea. They want to unify whereas South Korea, but North Korea does not understand that the South Koreans feel victimized by the North. So, there is a lot of reconciliation that needs to happen between North and South Korea. The second thing you mentioned was culture. The culture has diverged over the past 70 years. If you can imagine growing up in a socialist society versus a capitalistic society. Just the different mindset, the different worldview. And as I mentioned, the language has diverged, as well. The language was always somewhat different. There were always dialects in Korea. A different dialect in the North and different dialects in the South. But now the language has diverged even more because of their worldview, their communist jargon, the way that South Korea has adopted a lot foreign words into their language. There is a lot of divergence there. So, if Korea was ever to unify, my personal hope would be that it would be a slow process of reconciliation, really working through each of these little, tiny issues to the large issues. It is not going to be a simple process. It is very complicated. The last thing we want to see, which is one way that my personal perspective differs from many people in the West, is…and I used to think this, too. I used to think that if only North Korea collapsed, that would be the perfect scenario. But I think that is one of the worst scenarios. That means a very chaotic situation for the common North Korean people, and it means chaos for South Korea. Instead of them being able to come to terms with each other, really unify on a strong platform, a strong foundation, it sets the stage for even more conflict. I really hope that we can start working towards this peace process on the Korean Peninsula. Unfortunately, the United States is essential for that. As you know, the Korean War has never ended. We only have a Cease of Arms Agreement. In order for us to even move on, to even want to start unification, we first have to declare an end to the Korean War. I know there is legislation in Congress proposing this. It’s ridiculous. It’s been over 70 years of war. It is the longest standing conflict in American history. So, that’s the first step. We have to end the war. And once we are able to do that, and only the United States has the power to do so because South Korea did not have their own military at the time, so the U.S. representing the UN nations’ military forces, the U.S. has to declare an end to the war. And then, we can start moving towards this process, a slow process of working out all these details, these many details, hopefully coming to a place of reconciliation on the Korean Peninsula.
Dr. Jones: In North Korea as part of the educational system is expressing the hope that the peninsula can be unified. Is that from the understanding that the South becomes a socialist country? Or do you think there is an openness to a one country two systems kind of thing? How is that taught? Is it that Juche will win and become the dominant force? How is that house that approached?
Me: Right. I was actually surprised because I asked the same questions you are asking. I had the same question when we were in North Korea, and I actually asked our counterparts in North Korea these questions. Apparently, the founding leader of North Korea in the 90s, I believe, before he passed away actually declared that the two countries should coexist with separate systems because their desire is to unify as a people, not necessarily as a political nation. I think they want to go towards that, but that's not going to be a simple process. The last proposal that I understood the North Korean government working on was two systems and working towards a two-system nation.
Dr. Jones: I don't know anything about this, but that seems to me like an obvious diplomatic opening. I mean you just put just a minute ago you were saying we need to get the end of the war declared. And then, if the I mean this is you know course this is related to the Cold War. This is sort of the survivor from the Cold War, but if the Founding Leader or the Founding Leader’s Son said the objective is not for a communist South. An objective is two systems, one country. This seems to be like a pretty, and again I don't I don't know anything about this, but that seems like a pretty obvious diplomatic opening?
Me: You would think that it would be an opening, but unfortunately this comes to a matter of trust. The United States doesn't trust North Korea. North Korea definitely doesn't trust the United States. There have been broken promises on both sides, multiple times. South Korea doesn't trust North Korea. They're still very much traumatized from the Korean War. So, whether North Korea declares this to be true or not, if this is really their current idea that they’re working from, the problem is that United States and South Korea don’t trust that. So that is why it is so important to engage in relationships. We can't build trust if you're not actually trying to learn of one another, to know who each other are, and to start to make that first step. You know the saying to, “Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer”? It's a pretty wise saying because unless we understand who were working with, how do we know what they want? How do we know how to talk to them? How do we know if we can trust them or not? These are the issues that are really deeply embedded in this, not just between North and South Korea, but also with the United States and Korea, as well.
Dr. Jones: You mention relationship, and that's something that’s emphasized in your Memoirs and emphasized in other things you wrote. And, it's demonstrated in your own experience. I may not have the specifics right, but your husband got a PhD in North Korea, and then if I remember correctly, when the degree was going to be confirmed, the question was could you could you be at the ceremony. The assumption was probably not, but it turned out that you could be there. And my understanding is you were the very first American ever to be in that kind of ceremony in the history of North Korea?
Me: You are very close. Actually, my husband is a U.S. citizen, as well, but I think for Koreans being ethnically Korean is very different than if you are non-ethnic Korean. My husband is an ethnic Korean. Let me explain a little bit better. North Korea does not issue PhDs or doctoral degrees from an academic institution. They are actually issued from the government, itself. You can study up to Masters level at an academic institution, but when it comes to PhDs, those are considered high honors, almost like receiving a medal. In fact, my husband did receive a medal when he received his PhD, as well. So, it's a highly honoring ceremony, and it takes place in their Congress Hall. In order for myself, his wife, to be able to attend, we had to petition the government because I am not ethnically Korean. I'm a Caucasian American. They did grant me access, and I believe, I may be mistaken, but I do believe that I probably am the first non-ethnic Korean-American to be in Congress Hall.
Outside Our First Residence in Pyongyang, North Korea
Dr. Jones: Right. You were living on a compound pretty isolated heavy security for about 4 years, couldn't take it anymore, and wanted to go to the Embassy compound to be able to interact more. Your request for that to happen was denied, but then if I have it right, your minder or guide or driver intervened on your behalf and wrote a letter which convinced folks to let you make this move. That made some pretty extraordinary work happen.
Me: That’s correct. For four years, we lived in almost complete isolation. We had no neighbors. In North Korea, the general public doesn't have a lot of freedom, but as a foreigner we had even less freedom. That's one thing I don't miss about living there, however, I do miss the people because we did build really strong relationships. One of those relationships was with our North Korean counterpart. When he heard that our application was denied, and this is something we had been working on for 4 years, (We never intended to live on that compound long-term, but that's what was happening), when it was denied, it came to the point where we are almost at our breaking point. We said that we needed to leave to take a break. We can't live in isolation like this anymore. And then, he wrote on our behalf, without us knowing about it, (It was he did something behind us, not us being involved at all), and petitioned. What he wrote was actually a story of me sharing with him my heart for reconciliation on the Korean Peninsula and my passion to see these two countries come to a place of being able to forgive one another, be united, and receive healing and hope. Because of that story, they actually reversed their decision, and we were able to become the first American family to ever live on the Embassy Compound in Pyongyang, North Korea. As you know, we don't have any diplomatic relations with North Korea, and so we actually had no right to request that, but because of that relationship, because of our heart of wanting to see a breakthrough on the Korean Peninsula, they made an exception just for our family.
